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Talk:Mink Tribe
Bepo-Pekoms I think that we can list Bepo and Pekoms as Minkmen without official confirmation. 20:00, October 22, 2015 (UTC) No. SeaTerror (talk) 20:01, October 22, 2015 (UTC) No. 20:02, October 22, 2015 (UTC) Bepo and Pekoms, and Pappug, are animals who act human. Minks are humanoids with animal characteristics. They're not the same. 20:03, October 22, 2015 (UTC) Merry, Mohji and Caesar fits the category Joekido (talk) 20:08, October 22, 2015 (UTC) :Maybe, but I think we need to settle this first. no --Koromo (talk) 20:19, October 22, 2015 (UTC) Fair enough guys. @Nova thats also a speculation. 20:35, October 22, 2015 (UTC) Aside for Pappug, whom we know for a fact is not a minkman, it is too soon to say anything about Bepo and Pekoms. Everyone else is speculation. 23:07, October 22, 2015 (UTC) Chapter 805 Now that Bepo is confirmed to be a Mink, I think it's safe to list Pekoms as one as well. They basically have the same characteristics like the dot-shaped eyes. 08:29, October 29, 2015 (UTC) Yeah, it's fairly confirmed at this point. 10:59, October 29, 2015 (UTC) Why can't we just wait? 11:03, October 29, 2015 (UTC) Wait what? Do you think we will see soon again Pekoms with a character introduction box? I don't think so. Yeah add him guys. The fact that he actually is one will probably be mentioned in quite a few years, when we will see more of him. 12:46, October 29, 2015 (UTC) Though he seems to be a minkmen, adding any unconfirmed information is unprofessional. 20:25, October 29, 2015 (UTC) A confirmed information is not just one written. This might seem like a bit of a non-sequitur, but can I remind everyone of the Saruyama alliance? It seems common for humanoid animal characters, who we would assume at this point are minkmen, to claim to be normal humans, or at least insist they are not the animal that they resemble. Is this perhaps to avoid outing themselves as minkmen, for fear of being captured as a slave? 21:18, October 29, 2015 (UTC) We've seen talking sea creatures like Pappug in OP so for all we know Pekoms could be a talking turtle who ate a devil fruit that turns him into a lion. (He could have reverted back to a turtle against Caribou, not necessary transform into one.) --Sarutobii2 (talk) 21:27, October 29, 2015 (UTC) I always thought Bepo is a talking bear because Law switched his heart with one. It's way too soon to consider ANYTHING. 21:41, October 29, 2015 (UTC) Bepo was explicitly confirmed to be a Mink in the latest chapter, Nada. It's just Pekoms we're debating now. Anyway, I agree with what Levi has said here and the Pekoms talk page. If an obvious fishman appeared, we wouldn't hesitate to list them as one. Same should apply for minks. 21:52, October 29, 2015 (UTC) Oh, I hadn't read it yet. Well, I guess that answers that question then. 22:38, October 29, 2015 (UTC) @Anon: to be honest, that is a good point, although in that case you can argue that they looked like animals but weren't actually so. Pekoms is definitely a talking lion, so it's a different case. I still believe there is no reason to doubt it anything else other then a mink. What are the alternatives? A talking animal like pappagu? Well but if that's considered a reasonable doubt, then it's even more for fishmen. I don't remember ever reading an argument like "it might not be a fishman but a talking animal" in the past, so at least for coherency I don't understand why we should start now. And what I'm also trying to explain, is that you cannot use the "everything that is not explicitly said is a speculation" only sometimes. If you truly believe that, then why in the template Pedro and those two unnamed characters are listed as minks? Who said that monkey or Pedro were a mink? I didn't see an infobox saying so. Was that because we are on Zou? Well how can you say that there aren't "talking animals" on Zou? See? IMO if you think it's reasonable to doubt of pekoms being a mink because it was never said so, then Pedro and the other two unnamed minks should also be removed from the template. Those and EVERY OTHER new character we will see on Zo that doesn't have an infobox saying it's a mink. Pappug is an exception to the rule and anyone who bothered to actually read his background would understand that. Bepo got confirmed this chapter, so anyone who tries to argue that is just plain dumb. Considering what he looks like, Pekoms is a mink too. Do you know how many characters we have listed as human who never outright said they were human? Try thinking next time. 01:54, October 30, 2015 (UTC) Pappug was just a starfish who learned how to talk and act like a human. Pekoms may be the same case. If we don't have all the facts yet, then we should keep it under tabs for the time being. 01:57, October 30, 2015 (UTC) Humanoid, check. Looks like a lion, check. Sentient and capable of speech and rational thought, check. What more do you want? Compare Pekoms to Agyo and you'll see he's clearly a mink. 02:01, October 30, 2015 (UTC) Standing on hind legs, check. Using his stubby hands to play guitar, check. Sentient and capable of speech and capable of rational thought, check. Pappug the starfish also fulfills such requirements, and he is no Mink. 02:03, October 30, 2015 (UTC) Read Pappug's backstory and you'll understand why he isn't and why he shouldn't be used as a counterargument. To start with, Pappug is not a mammal. 02:05, October 30, 2015 (UTC) If we go by such speculations (no matter how close to 100% it seems), then we'd be accepting the kanji/romaji for Nui Nui no Mi without a data-book reference first. 02:11, October 30, 2015 (UTC) Okay, put it this way: Big Mom is many times bigger than Bobbin, enough to eat subordinates. Should we label her a giant? 02:13, October 30, 2015 (UTC) One has nothing to do with the other. If we hold off on Pekoms because it wasn't explicitly stated, then you do realize that most of the "human" category would be going down for the sake of consistency, right? If we can categorize humans, fishmen, and giants just by looking, then why not people whose bodies are covered in fur? If you want to argue Big Mom, wait until we see her whole body. 02:16, October 30, 2015 (UTC) About the pappug argument: it cannot be like that, now that I think about it. Pappug was a starfish who learned/started to talk, but it's still, even now, a starfish. If that was the case for Pekoms, it would've been a lion who started talking. Pekoms is not a lion, but an humanoid lion. Lions done't have an opposing thumb or legs like that, heck their knees are backwards compared to humans. Pekoms is not a lion, therefore is a lion-type mink. Not really much of a choice. And my point still stand: either prove that Pedro or Bariette are minks or remove them from the template. Bepo obvious yes. Pekoms is kinda speculative, though the similarity should be noted on his page if we think no. Pedro is a yes too since we've seen him, and I'd say it's safe to include Barriette as he is part of the Mink organization. Nobody else with any animal-like horns/etc should be considered a mink. 05:25, October 30, 2015 (UTC) * "Pekoms is kinda speculative" - why is speculative exactly? Because at the moment I can't think any other explanation other then being a mink. It's not a DF, because he already ate one and he is not a talking animal like pappug for the reasons I stated above. So what's left? Aliens? There are indeed aliens in OP. Are you thinking Pekoms might be one? * "Pedro is a yes too since we've seen him". Lol what? Show me the infobox stating he is a mink. If you are saying "we have seen him and he has all the mink characteristics" then Pekoms is too. If you say "Pekoms although he fits being a mink is speculative to say so" then it's also speculative for Pedro. This is what I'm trying to make you understand: you cannot be the speculation paladin in one case and not in the other. If you use that logic you HAVE to stick with it. And since it seems to me that nobody is doubting Pedro being a mink, FOR THE EXACTLY SAME REASONS, nobody should doubt Pekoms. Because the assumption made for Pedro is the same one made for Pekoms which is "it's an humanoid animal". Seriously guys, are you kidding? Then remove half the fishmen from the category,since there was no infobox saying "fishman". Jesus, you can recognize a giant if you see him, so why not a minkman. 12:39, October 30, 2015 (UTC) It's all about context. If we meet someone covered in fur and animal characteristics on the island that minks are from, then they're a mink. If we meet some weird guy with the characteristics of two different animals at once on a totally different island, that's more speculative. Don't get me wrong, I'm ok with calling Pekoms a mink, but I'm much more hesitant than for other characters. 15:32, October 30, 2015 (UTC) As fair I understand, the reason people were hesitant was the pappug argument, but as I've explained that cannot be the case. It's not a DF either, so what other reason might be? "Jesus, you can recognize a giant if you see him, so why not a minkman." Bastille SeaTerror (talk) 16:46, October 30, 2015 (UTC) You're really trying to base your argument on the fact that Pekoms is a Zoan? That is completely baseless. It's not speculative. Compare Pekoms to Agyo (an actual lion), and you'll understand how Pekoms is a freaking mink. How the frank is calling him a mink speculative? 16:55, October 30, 2015 (UTC) @ST: You are completely right, the giant race case is a bad example. Not that matters here anyway, since we are not talking about a giant. Why are you guys arguing against me so much? I said I'm fine with calling him a Mink, just slightly hesitant. 19:42, October 30, 2015 (UTC) If you're fine with it, then don't churn out counterarguments. 19:46, October 30, 2015 (UTC) Yeah ST, That's probably because "Bastille is the shortest giant " dont take exception as examples, seriously you benefit no one. 22:16, October 30, 2015 (UTC) For Pekoms, the majority is unclear. We should probably just poll it. Where should we do that: This page, or his? 06:15, October 31, 2015 (UTC) Do it in his own talk. 08:58, October 31, 2015 (UTC) He's clearly a mink, based on the process of elimination: *Dive to Grand World lists him as "unknown species", same as Bepo, so he can't be a normal human or lion. *He's a turtle/tortoise zoan so that doesn't explain the lion body. Mink is all that's left, unless Oda creates another race that are minks but not minks, in which case you would need to remove everyone else from human/giant/fishman/dwarf categories by the same logic as people have mentioned above. Whatever happens, it would be a good idea to make a list of people who have strong animal characteristics but haven't been confirmed to be minks (eg Magellan) somewhere on the page (not in Mythbusters), as a way to prevent edit wars. 10:25, October 31, 2015 (UTC) "He's a turtle/tortoise zoan" Or he's a talking turtle who ate a lion/zoan devil fruit. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 10:42, October 31, 2015 (UTC) No, because then he would have three forms: full turtle, turtle/lion hybrid, and full lion. But he's a humanoid lion (ie like Bepo), not a normal lion (ie Agyo). 11:25, October 31, 2015 (UTC) He's bipedal and has five-fingered hands with thumbs, neither or which are characteristics of lions or turtles. Mink is the only option. 11:36, October 31, 2015 (UTC) I'm okay with putting Pekoms in the list (was not at first, but the animo seems to be strong enough), but does that mean every humanoid animal we've seen so far in the series is a Mink as well? Because the border of humanoid-animal or just weird human is kind of vague (horns for example) and in my opinion goes a bit far. Not every character is a threeway-hybrid like Pekoms, so how would we catagorize them? I also have a feeling categorizing Pekoms as Mink will eventually cause more problems than solve them.. 12:02, October 31, 2015 (UTC) Definitely other "animal-like" characters will rise discussion, but Pekoms is the safest case because we can exclude the DF option. For other people we have to go case by case although I expect in many cases we won't be able to safely determinate what it is. Anyway, by this discussion, we can conclude some points: * Mink features: ** Especially the males, seems to be very animal-like. Therefore we don't have reason to think as possible minks people with horns that look human but the horns. ** Other notable feature are fur, animal-ears or tails. ** For females, the head is the more animal-like part. * Difference with DFs: ** The most ambiguous situation is a zoan DF in hybrid form. If we see other forms we can understand better the situation, but the ambiguous cases are: *** Human who ate a DF but we've seen only the hybrid form. Obviously if we see the human form that would take care of it. *** Talking animal that ate a DF. I really don't like the talking animal argument, however as the anon said, in Pekoms case the three forms don't fit this because he has no "pure-lion" form. * Talking animals: ** As we concluded here, talking animals are indeed 100% animal therefore they cannot have human features (beside speech). I really don't like this argument since I think it's quite clear the pappug is the only exception or at least we have no reason to look out for others. An example: Dalmatian can be another be ambiguous case, but his "hybrid form" is literally half human and half dog, so it's hard to believe him as mink. Any chance Pekoms could be a Sea Turtle Fishman who ate a Zoan/Lion devil fruit? --Sarutobii2 (talk) 13:42, October 31, 2015 (UTC) Wow... you're really grasping at straws, aren't you? But you should reread what I wrote last time and think for a couple of seconds. * Full turtle fishman form - no. * Hydrid turtle fishman/lion - would necessarily have turtle characteristics, so no. * Full lion - no, since he's humanoid. 15:08, October 31, 2015 (UTC) Bipedal, humanoid, additional non-human mammalian features, with most or all of their body covered in fur. Exclude all filler characters in this inquiry. 04:33, November 1, 2015 (UTC) We still need someone to do the work here, then we can close this. 03:56, November 27, 2015 (UTC) Race or Tribe *I think the Mink Tribe members are Minkman so there should be a different page for each of them. we don't know if every Minkman is a member of the Mink Tribe and not all members of the Mink Tribe are Minkmen (alligator-boar hybrid and the monkey). until we have more info, we shouldn't speculate that they are the same. *Should we note that every Minkmen weve seen was a Mink'Wo'men? Rhavkin (talk) 07:56, October 23, 2015 (UTC) Minkman=Mink Tribe member. And no, they are not all females. 12:28, October 30, 2015 (UTC) Unknown minks I'm the only person to think that the girl in chapter 795 is Carrot, and that the monkey is Bariete? 20:46, October 30, 2015 (UTC)Darth Fox The monkey is most likely bariete, but since it can very well be another one, we decided to not assume anything. About the girl, her nose has a different shape then carrot, IMO. I thought maybe it could be wanda but it seems the design is a bit different: the hair have a different style, the nose seems to be smaller and the eyes bigger. Overall the unknow girl seems more petit-like to me then Wanda. It may be a change of style but there is still too much uncertainty. Maybe she's Tristan?: wavy hair, round ears, short nose... Rhavkin (talk) 12:25, November 19, 2015 (UTC) Accurate line "They don't have a grudge against all humans, with some minks even admiring them or at times attracted to them." This line is more accurate then saying "seems" because it's pretty clear from Wanda's dialogue that they don't hate all humans, only based on the person themselves. Joekido (talk) 02:31, November 16, 2015 (UTC) We could wait to see if all Minks share that sentiment. Bit early too tell in my opinion. 02:36, November 16, 2015 (UTC) I think we should add to the end of the sentence that not all Minks think that way Joekido (talk) 02:44, November 16, 2015 (UTC) We should just re-write it to convey that some people think each way about humans. If a sentence's details are inaccurate, don't spend forever trying to rewrite it, just start from scratch. 04:16, November 17, 2015 (UTC) Edit War I didn't mean to remove the first part. But Yonko was misspelled and it was difficult to fix that edit at the time. The second part, which suggests that Nekomamushi could have found out about Devil Fruits in his time at sea, is speculation. 16:50, December 31, 2015 (UTC) Garchu Don't we need to add garchu anywhere? Meshack (talk) 21:00, December 8, 2016 (UTC) Well we added "heso" (Skypieans' equivalent of garchu) here. I guess we could add it to either the Zou or Mink Tribe page, or even both 21:16, December 8, 2016 (UTC) Culture: ティア romanization should be tia Why is this suffix romanized as teia? I've noticed that term is used in the crunchyroll subs, but it's an incorrect romanization of the actual term. In the manga, the suffix used is ティア, and this is also the pronunciation used by the anime voice actors. (I'm wondering if someone misread ティア as テイア.) In Hepburn-style romanization systems, as used on Wikia, the correct romanization is tia.* * This is also the correct romanization in Kunrei-shiki (the other major romanization system, used in some contexts in Japan). However, in Kunrei-shiki, ti is also used for the mora チ, so tia could represent either ティア or チア. Troyp (talk) 01:50, January 11, 2017 (UTC) Moon Lion and Ceylon It seem we have a problem with the name of the newly revealed form. First of all, both mangastream and jaminibox translate both Jinbe and the Big Mom Pirate as the same word (Sulong and Ceylon respectably) but according to the raw they are two different names. I think mangastream's Sulong is the vocalization of Suron and not a translation, and I don't know why the Sri Lankian phrase was used by Jaminibox except for its relation to a lion. As I understand it, "Suron" is the name training and the form name is "Moon Lion". I base this on Jinbe asking if she is trained in Suron, and the BMP said she is a Moon Lion. Given the fact that the chapter title is "Lion" and it used the same characters as used in "Moon Lion", and the fact that it was the main plot of the chapter, I think the title is refereed to the form; hence the form's name is related to lion. I don't think it is necessary to wait for the official release if we look at the spoilers. Rhavkin (talk) 15:18, December 8, 2017 (UTC) :The problem is that the kanji 月の獅子 is read スーロン(sūron), meaning that Jinbe most likely was talking about same thing. Also, Ceylon in katakana is read セイロン(seiron), not スーロン(sūron). The current version doesn't really make sense here. --JouXIII (talk) Klobis talked about that here. But isn't the translation still Moon(月)'s(の) Lion(獅子)? So Moon Lion should still be the the form's name. Rhavkin (talk) 17:50, December 8, 2017 (UTC) That is the meaning of kanji, yes, but it's not what the form is called. If it were, furigana would have been つきのしし, tsuki no shishi, and yet it's スーロン, sūron(whatever heck it's suppose to meanit's not "Ceylon" as I explained above). Putting "Moon Lion" as name of form would be same as putting "Shield White String" as name of "Off White" despite the furigana of 盾白糸(tate shiro ito) being オフホワイト(ofu howaito). --JouXIII (talk) 18:11, December 8, 2017 (UTC) That's different. We're talking about forms not attacks. Even Luffy's gears and Chopper's points are not a good referance because this is not Devil Fruit based, its transformation. It's new so all previuos rules are irelevents. Rhavkin (talk) 18:33, December 8, 2017 (UTC) Form or attacks, it doesn't matter. Furigana determines the reading of kanji and therefore its name. Also, by your logic, Sanji uses "Demon Wind Leg" and not "Diable Jambe". --JouXIII (talk) 19:20, December 8, 2017 (UTC) We're getting off topic. The discussion i want to bring up is not how to pronounce it (スーロン\sūron. No question or other option.) I'm talking about the reason for two different spelling in one chapter. One occasion (Jinbe) talked about the training of, while the other (BMP) talked about the form. Can we agree up till this part? Ceylon and Sulong comes from translation so they mean nothing, comparing to other types of form shown until now (even Luffy and Chopper) we translate it. Since スーロン doesn't have an English translation, the kenji is all we can based this on, which read Moon Lion. The name of the chapter reads "獅子" with the furigana "しし", so it's obvious that the word "Lion" in any translation is a key point and it seems weird that it wasn't meant to be specifically mentioned, so I do believe that "Lion" should be a part of the name and the indication of it is the kanji. Rhavkin (talk) 19:58, December 8, 2017 (UTC) Didn't Klobis said "Sulong" is an acceptable transliteration? If that's not the case, then isn't it just "suron"? Klobis said he doesn't know the etymology and prefers "Sulong" because it sounds Chinese. But doesn't "long" mean dragon in Chinese? I doubt a (usually) reptilian creature would be used for a mammalian transformation. :海賊☠姫 (talk) 22:26, December 8, 2017 (UTC) But why are we still using Ceylon in the article if there's no basis for it in the kanji, katakana, or Furigana? Should it just be Sulon/Suron/Sulong and Tsuki no Shishi and that's it? Rayfire (talk) 23:09, December 8, 2017 (UTC) We can go with Sulong for now and rediscuss once we know what Viz will use. 00:38, December 9, 2017 (UTC) *Does there need to be a vote on that or should someone just change it? Rayfire (talk) 03:20, December 9, 2017 (UTC) Since when does the Viz translation mean anything? Rhavkin (talk) 08:48, December 9, 2017 (UTC) On a side note, I also think the transformation should have its own page like electro. That is when we agree on a a proper name though. The Electro page was created three weeks\chapters after it first appearance, two after it was named. Next week there isn't a chapter (according to APf), and next chapter we will hopefully continue with Carrot and not jump elsewhere, so we might get more info. As of now, as Wanda considered them lucky the full moon was hidden in chapter 811, it might not be worth a page if it is a phenomena that happen regularly to every mink. Electro is a fighting style so it has precedent, but we don't have pages for sight or breath. Rhavkin (talk) 09:56, December 9, 2017 (UTC) Wouldn't this be an innate ability like Haki? Well, whatever, let's not get sidetracked. First the name. In haki, the only equivalent is Haoshoku Haki since its from birth and controlled by training like this, but the others are gained by training. The main different however is the necessity of the full moon and species exclusivity. Other species exclusive fighting styles like Merman and Tontatta Combat have their own page but there is no evidence they are born with it. 10:33, December 9, 2017 (UTC) #While we may not always agree with or use Viz's translations, we would be remiss to ignore an educated opinion on a reference we don't seem to get. #Aisa was born with Kenbunshoku Haki. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 17:18, December 9, 2017 (UTC) So Viz used "Sulong" and had the BM pirate explain the kanji as "Moon Lion." I say we change "Ceylon" to "Sulong" and leave "Moon Lion" in the Nihongo template. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 16:59, December 11, 2017 (UTC) Sounds good to me. --JouXIII (talk) 19:30, December 11, 2017 (UTC) I agree with using Sulong Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 02:27, December 12, 2017 (UTC) Klobis and Viz saying Sulong and clear majority agrees. We can start making changes then. 02:29, December 12, 2017 (UTC) Dang! Klobis is good at this. But Kaizoku-Hime doesn’t agree since Hime believes long means dragon in Chinese? I think we should go for Sulong though Meshack (talk) 03:07, December 12, 2017 (UTC) Everyone's just guessing right know. I'm okay with using "Sulong" until we have something more definitive. :海賊☠姫 (talk) 04:55, December 12, 2017 (UTC) Sulong and Energy Steroids I can't have been the only one to see parallels between Carrot's Sulong form and Hody Jones' Energy Steroid overdose. We've got: A vast increase in strength, we've got red eyes (later, and in the anime, but not always), we've got long, white hair. And, it is detrimental to the user's lifespan. The difference seems to be in the trigger. One is a state triggered by viewing the full moon, and the other was chemically induced. One wonders if the ES was made after researching the Mink's ability. If so, does that mean there was interaction between the people in the distant past? Or at least, the research product being "stashed" in the Tamatebako. It was probably stashed away for the obvious reason - the cost to lifespan, but that could mean the basic effect of strength boosting is a sucessfully scaled-down version. Reflected void (talk) 16:56, December 23, 2017 (UTC) That's a fan theory which is floating around and therefore a speculation. Use blogs or discussions if you want to talk about that. Shoot. I kinda got carried away. Want me to axe the whole thing or just keep the simple comparison.. on account of white hair and life loss.? Reflected void (talk) 02:12, December 27, 2017 (UTC)